Reader Response
Daniel Valles, 12/5/6 Updated 1/7/7
 

1st Email    [Jump to 2nd Email and reply] A Reader wrote on 12/5/8: I saw your email on a Christian site that talked about homosexuality issues and so I wonder what your thoughts are on same sex romantic love are and if you think this is a sin, where are we told this in the bible?

Dear Reader, 

As we look at this subject, let us start by defining the terms.  Many times broad words are used when specifics should be used.  'Love' is one of those words that has different meanings based on the objects and circumstances.  There are many different kinds of 'love' in the world.  There can be social or moral love (Greek word, agape).  An example of this would be you 'love' being in the company or presence of your friends for the companionship, fun, conversation, etc.  In the same sense, you can 'love' someone who has done you a favor.  We 'love' our children and family because of our instinct and connection to them.  For the Christian, we love God because He first loved us (I John 4:19, John 3:16), and gave His life on the cross in payment for our sin.  The Bible tells us to 'love' (societal) our neighbor.  'Love' is also good-will toward people. There are many fine charity and missions organizations that help others out of love for their fellow human beings (Greek word, philanthrōpia).  There is also a 'love' of one's country: patriotism.

There is also a deeper love - ardent friendship or a stronger attachment (Greek word, phileo).  It means to be a friend of, or to have an affection for (not in a sensual sense).  In John 21:7, the Bible mentions John as the "disciple whom Jesus loved [agape]".  
In the Bible, there is recorded the 'love' of David and Jonathan.  Many times they are wrongly used to excuse homosexual relationships.  There is nothing wrong with ardent, non-sensual, close friendships between people of the same gender. 

Let us look at the relationship of David and Jonathan.  1 Samuel 18:1-3 says, "And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.  And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father's house.  Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul."  In short, these two men became close, ardent friends.  The words 'love, loved' in this passage both come from the Hebrew word(s) aw-hab', aw-habe'.  It means to have affection for (sexually or otherwise); as a friend.  Now some people would jump to conclusions and assume that it was used in the sexual sense.  But we can clarify what 'love' they were talking of by II Samuel 1:26, in which David says, "I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women."  In this passage, the word 'love' is a different word for love (Hebrew word, 'ahab).  It simple means an "affection (in a good or a bad sense)".  David was saying that their friendship was closer than even the affection (non-sensual) between a man and a woman.  Proverbs 18:24 also mentions this type of friendship: "A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother."  There are friendships in this world that can surpass even family, marriage, and paternal bonds.

So, does the Bible say anything about a sensual relationship between people of the same gender?  Absolutely.  Perhaps one of the best verses that explains several discrepancies of the homosexual 'love' is Romans 1:27.  The chapter mentions several ways in which humanity has turned against God.  One of them is same-gender sex.  "And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."  The very first thing that God plainly establishes in this verse, by way of introduction, is that people are not born homosexuals.  The engaging in homosexual acts is a choice that is chosen contrary to the way they were born.  God never created someone homosexual.  It was a choice that they made.  True, there are many unfortunate young people today that are being indoctrinated from kindergarten that homosexuality is 'normal' and 'ok'.  Hogwash.  If I taught a child from kindergarten that they came from monkeys, they would believe that too.  Genesis 1:27 says, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."  Pardon my French, but God made a male and a female, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what parts were made for each other, and which ones weren't.  The natural act of sex between a male and female is a loving, face-to-face engagement.  Anything else cannot be called love - it is using another individual for one's animal lusts.

That brings us to the second thing that this verse clarifies: homosexuals do not 'love' - they "lust".  There is a world of difference between loving someone and lusting after someone.  Notice how the rich language of the King James Bible clarifies their actions with the word "burned".  The lust-driven cravings are far from true love.   Finally, the last part of the verse describes the fallout of many homosexuals - they receive the results of their actions.  If they have chosen to go contrary to the way we were created, then they shouldn't be surprised that they have such a large rate of sexually-transmitted diseases, much lower life span, larger rates of depression, suicides, high rate of bowel diseases, tuberculosis, and hepatitis A and B.  One almost does not need the Bible to tell you that they are obviously doing something that is not healthy for them physically or mentally.  Any physician or mental health professional should see that the symptoms show that something is wrong.

Are same-gender friendships fine?  Yes.  Are same-gender lustful and sensual relationships sin?  Yes.  It is ironic that the police and court systems still use the biblical term 'sodomize' in certain crime descriptions.  The reason it is called that is because everyone knows for thousands of years we got the term from the activity associated with the ancient cities of Sodom and Gomorrah (II Peter 2:4-10).  People today are called (by themselves, as well) 'sodomites' because they engage in the same sinful behavior.  The word 'sodomites' is not a new term.  The Bible uses it several times.  Every time that the Bible mentions sodomites, or sodomite behavior, it is always in a negative connotation, and often listed as one of the reasons why a particular judgment was given. 

"But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly." Genesis 13:13

"And Judah did evil in the sight of the LORD, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins which they had committed, above all that their fathers had done. For they also built them high places, and images, and groves, on every high hill, and under every green tree. And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel." I Kings 14:22-24

"And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made." I Kings 15:11-12

"And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he [King Jehoshaphat] took out of the land." I Kings 22:46

"And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people stood to the covenant. And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove." II Kings 23:3, 7

Other specific verses are Genesis 18:20, Genesis 19:1-29, Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, I Timothy 1:8-11, and Jude 6-7.

Reader, I do not know your situation, but if you are in a homosexual relationship, or know of someone who is, there is hope.  In I Corinthians 6:9-11, Paul wrote to the church people in Corinth and said that some of them (in their past) had been "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind".  But he said, "...such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." I Corinthians 6:9-11.  The sin of sodomy needs to be repented of and turned from.

I highly recommend that you read this article entitled, "Hope For The Homosexual" (http://www.pawcreek.org/articles/endtimes/HopeForTheHomosexual.htm) by Paw Creek Ministries.

Reader, I pray that God's and His Word will help you understand this important subject, and use this information (whether in your life or others) to restore a fellowship with God, serving Him and not the lusts.

Dear Reader,

After all of the end-of-the-year traveling, I have finally been able to sit down and respond to your emails.

I can tell from your responses that you read my email too quickly and that you were not looking for information. It appears from your numerous postings on other forums and groups (*****************, ******************, **************, etc.) that you are more interesting in hearing responses which make you feel better about your choice than whether it is a good choice or not.

It also appears that you are reading these posts and fastening on the most ridiculous supports for your arguments. In your responses to my email, only half of your questions and statements actually had something to do with the subject at hand: whether same-gender sexual relationships were forbidden by God. The cut-and-paste responses that you found on the web steering-off topic (such as divorce and multiple wives) have no connection whatsoever.

I can also tell that you are (1) not a Christian (2) are completely ignorant of what the Bible says, and are just repeating something about the Bible from someone who was stretching to find some modicum of evidence to support their choice to go against God's precepts. I am not really surprised though, Reader. Romans 1:28, talking about all of those people who reject God via one form or another, says, "even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind..." You have made up your mind quite some time ago that you are going to do whatever you want to do, regardless of what God thinks. And God is saying that if that's what you want to think, then your mind is going to believe the flimsiest and most outrageous lies. You will get to the point where you are lying to yourself.

You said,
"I think thats bad genralised thinking that gays can only lust and not love."
Yep, you're absolutely true. I am glad you pointed that out. Good thing I did not say that. As I illustrated in the second paragraph of my first email, there is nothing wrong with people of the same gender having love, care, and concern for each other. However, God makes it clear in His Word (as illustrated in the third paragraph) that adding sensuality to a same-gender interpersonal relationship is forbidden. Again, you read my first email too quickly. The Hebrew word 'ahab' used to describe the relationship between David and Jonathan *excludes* sexuality. It would be the same as saying they were 'not gay'.

You said,
"Lust is a short burst of sexual energy."
Wrong again. Lust is not hormones or adrenaline. Lust (shortly defined) is wanting something that is forbidden. Most people associate it with sensual activity because of the obvious (ie. adultery, pre-marital sex, same-gender sex, pedophilia, etc.) However, Eve lusted after the forbidden fruit in the garden of Eden. Achan lusted after the forbidden gold and silver in Jericho. The people of Israel in the wilderness lusted after the pleasures of Egypt. The secular phrase "caught with the hand in the cookie jar" describes how people pursue illicitly things that they were forbidden to have. Lust is wanting anything that is forbidden.

You said,
"So it [lust] doesn't last and yet if polls are to be belived heterosexual marrage is now 50% least likely to last and
gay unions that are blessed do. So clearly gay couples can and do love and some more than sadly many heterosexuals do."
Reader, I laughed when I read that. That has nothing to do with the subject (you're reaching now), and not only is it an illogical statement, but it is also false. (1) I majored at college in Advertising and Public Relations; I know how incredibly easy it is to manipulate polls and surveys. Hence, they carry little weight with me. (2) The Bible tells us numerous times that adultery and divorce is forbidden as well. Your stats just go to show the power of lust. When someone lusts after something they want, unless they are anchored in God's Word and heeding what He says, they will pursue after it. (3) I found it incredibly ironic that you were saying that sodomites are more dedicated to each other than normal people. Even the secular world knows that to be laughably false. Sodomites are the most promiscuous group on our planet! "Male sodomites with HIV averaged 1,100 homosexual partners" ["The Gay Dilemma," Psychology Today, January 1984, p. 56]. In his study of male homosexuality in "Western Sexuality: Practice and Precept in Past and Present Times", M. Pollak found that "few homosexual relationships last longer than two years, with many men reporting hundreds of lifetime partners." Since you like popular opinion and polls so much, how about this one: "only 2.7 percent claimed to have had sex with one partner only" [Journal of Sex Research, Paul Van de Ven]. (4) You are blindly assuming when you describe gay unions as 'blessed'. Only someone with a twisted mind (reprobate mind) would consider a larger rate of sexually-transmitted diseases, much lower life span, larger rates of depression, suicides, high rate of bowel diseases, tuberculosis, and hepatitis A and B as a 'blessing'. Your statements only exposes more of your biased hypocrisy.

You said,
"...romans 1 only has Paul mention same sex lust in idolotry, how is romans 1 a case at all on same sex romantic love then?"
Again, you read my email too quickly, seeing only what you wanted to see. Paragraph three, sentence three and four explained, "The chapter mentions several ways in which humanity has turned against God. One of them is same-gender sex." Romans 1:21-27 is a *list* of different ways that people have turned away from God. vs.21-22: atheists and agnostics, people who reject God outright. vs.23-24: Wicca, nature worshippers, New Age, idol worship. vs.25: animists, evolutionists, spiritists. vs.26: lesbianism, feminism. vs.27: sodomites. Sodomy is just one of the major ways in which people reject God. I find it highly probable that you are not a Christian. Why? You do not want God running your life and telling you what to do. You are an idol worshipper. You want a Mr. Potato-Head god - one you can take the ears, eyes, and mouth off of.

You said,
"You say anything other than a man and a woman can not be regarded as love but animal lust, so why did God bless 1 man and many wives in the OT? Clearly marriage is not as clear cut as some would have us belive." Wrong again. If you even read my email, the very first sentence of paragraph five says the complete opposite. Again, I had to roll my eyes at your statement about wives. It has nothing to do with supporting or negating the subject at hand, you just grabbed at it because it sounded good. Reader, you really need to start reading God's Word about what He says on subjects instead of cutting and pasting off of some forum from some twit spouting off their own opinion. (1) Anyone who has read the Bible knows that God condemns multiple wives. One instance is Deuteronomy 17:17 (talking about kings): "Neither shall he multiply wives to himself...". God gave Adam one wife, and He also gave commandments about adultery, divorce, and sodomy. (2) Again, you are ignorantly assuming God blessed multiple wives. Abraham's multiple wives (Hagar) caused him nothing but grief, and it's result was conflict in the Middle East to the present day. Solomon had the most wives of anyone, and he warned his son repeatedly in Proverbs not to make the same mistake, and he listed all of the heartaches that accompany it.

Reader, I say this with the utmost concern for you: your concepts of 'blessed' reveal someone who has been lied to. Someone has been telling you that pursuing the forbidden fruit will bring happiness and moral superiority. In fact, it has made it's followers the most miserable, sick and dying lot of human beings on our planet. Stop repeating their lies. Stop lying to yourself. Step back from Satan's cookie jar. Satan has sold you a false love that is sending you to the grave and to Hell. If you are tired of being lied to, pick up the Bible (I would suggest King James Bible), and read the New Testament book of John and Romans. You will find in those books a better definition of true love and how to obtain it than you will ever find on some forum or hookup site.

The choice is yours. Will you listen to lies or to God?
 

Final Notes by the Editor: The Reader's response to this last letter was not worthy of posting.  Basically, he continued to refuse the Word of God.  I could tell from his second response that he was not interested in the truth, only in arguing.  Matthew 7:6 says, "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."  The reason I did respond is to provide an article and illustration to some of the sodomite thinking and arguments, and to reinforce with Biblical examples God's declaration on the matter.